.LOT 7 WACKY WEDNESDAY KAROO MILLION -ZA 23 BORD 2927 – AMOS BROWN -SIRE:SCROYENS.—–DAM: CLAUSING – KING DAVID. SEE PEDIGREE!!!!

Auction Ended

Item condition: New

Category: ACTIVE AUCTION - WACKY WEDNESDAY KAROO MILLION - FROM 9 SEPTEMBER TO WEDNESDAY 11 SEPTEMBER 2024 (LOT 1 ENDS FROM 20:00)

Description
Auction history

Description

Auction History

Auction has finished

Auction failed because there were no bids

9th September 2024 16:53

Auction started

Latest bids

Date	Auction	Username	Bid	Status
11th December 2025 8:13	.LOT 1 DANIE SCHOLTZ / JACO FAUL -DAN 250 24 1567 -SIRE:Be-20-4204586.MASTER DIRK 586 Flanders Ireland.Blue bar pencil SIRE TO: 1. PRIZE 425 BIRDS. 5. PRIZE 114 BIRDS. 6. PRIZE 334 BIRDS. 10. PRIZE 348 BIRDS. 12. PRIZE 147 BIRDS. 18. PRIZE 110 BIRDS.———–DAM:MWU-19-503169.Fenech & Son. GRANDCHILD TO “BROER GOEDE RODE”.SEE PEDIGREE!!!	wb	R3,000	Current bid: R3,000
11th December 2025 0:47	LOT 10 MID DECEMBER – ZA 23 CYRL 9213 -ZA CYRL 9213-23 Pa en Dogters (bred by Chris van Staden) 4e Final Carnival Winter 2024. It is bred from a young Pair. Base of Aces Racing Pigeons & Drikus Odendaal that has quickly established itself amongst the Top scoring index against the Big Names in One Loft Competition in SA. At the core of its pedigree are 3 Different Direct Children of Famous ‘Best Kittel’ of Dehon Demonseau, all three half siblings of ‘Victory Best Kittel’ 1e Super Ace at Vic Falls that sold for €51,000-00 on Pipa. Pipa had 16x Top 50 Scores at Vic Falls all from the Progenitors of ‘Best Kittel’ x ofspring of ‘Best Kittel’, all relevant to this Pedigree. Other famous pigeons used to cross-breed with the Best Kittels in this Pedigree comprise of leading Base Stock in our Country. Interalia: ‘Golden TT’, ‘The Mirage’, (R69,000-00 on Toppigeon). ‘The Golden Thread’ Hen’ (Gr.Dght of ‘Bliksem’) And 04719-13 Ace Medallists Breeder Dght ‘Golden Thread’ Gys bought from Die Huysers for R138,00-00. All bankers used amongst others by Gys Louw and his partners that contributed to his succes at AfrikaPro. Br. of ‘Golden TT’ is Gr.Sire of Lex Webster sensational Ace Bird “Blue Moon’ at Dinokeng. ‘Golden TT’ herself is a Base hen in the Breeding of ‘Julia’ 1e AfrikaPro Final in 2022. ‘Golden TT’ is also a Base bird behind the Breeding of ‘Dart’ Ace bird Vic Falls for Alwyn Bester that has had more Top successes with the ‘Golden TT Influence. Top Samdpr pigeons used in this pedigree were ‘Okutanrune’ 2e Samdpr Final bought for R720,000-00 and Samdpr Hot Spot Ace ‘Blue Jenske’ and her Sister ‘Blue Daisy’. Most of the Samdpr introduction connects to the Gaby Blood that are at the core of the Maternal Side of ‘Best Kittel’ being a Gr.Son & Gr. Dght of his Famous Bliksem via Deno-Herbots. Herman recommended to Chris to ask Thomas Smit to compile this pedigree knowing the research he does. The detailed reseach of the Extra Ordinary Hit-Rate Demostrated, besides the other Birds in this Pedigree, shows a Shocking Superiority of the Best Kittel Genetics! Don’t miss this offer!SEE PEFIGREE!!!	neal	R1,000	Current bid: R1,000
10th December 2025 21:18	.LOT 5 MID DECEMBER – NL 17 1686352 -SIRE: NL 14 1125642.Alias “SUPER ACE” Strain: GEBR SCHEELE Color: BLUE BAR “SUPER ACE” NL14 1125642 INBRED SON SIRE X DAUGHTER “SUPERBOY” MATED TO HIS BEST DAUGHTER “ACE-GIRL” “SUPERBOY” SIRE AND GRAND SIRE OF 5 X 1ST NPO WINNERS “ACE-GIRL” BRED OUT OF NO1 PAIR 2ND NAT. ASDUIF FOND WHZB 2012———–DAM: NL 15 1273722 .Alias “ELINE” Strain: ANTON RUITENBERG Color: BLUE BAR “ELINE” NL15 1273722 INBRED DAUGHTER OUT OF “SUPER BLIKSEM 781” WITH HIS OWN DAUGHTER – FULL BROTHER TO “RUDY” GRAND SIRE 1ST NAT. BOURGES 13750P AND FASTEST 33.324P.SEE PEDIGREE!!!	riaan767	R1,000	Current bid: R1,000
10th December 2025 21:08	LOT 26 MID DECEMBER – ZA 23 EINKAMERER 300 -SIRE: 0021 ZA 22. DIRECT SON TO SUPER BREEDER PIZZARO.——-DAM:ZA 21 SPV 1521. EINKAMERER. THIS IS A DIRECT GRANDCHILD TO APPLE 2.SEE PEDIGREE!!!	sydow	R1,000	Current bid: R1,000
10th December 2025 21:05	LOT 12 MID DECEMBER – ZA 23 VPU 1501 “RAPHAEL” —3RD BARZALONA— SIRE:7224 ZA 18 VPU . VAN RHYN KLOECK/DE RAUW SABLON.————DAM:881 ABL 22 . DIRK VAN DEN BULCK. BRED FROM TWO IMPORTED DIRK VAN DEN BULCK OF ALWYN BESTER.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	sydow	R1,500	Current bid: R1,500
10th December 2025 20:56	LOT 12 MID DECEMBER – ZA 23 VPU 1501 “RAPHAEL” —3RD BARZALONA— SIRE:7224 ZA 18 VPU . VAN RHYN KLOECK/DE RAUW SABLON.————DAM:881 ABL 22 . DIRK VAN DEN BULCK. BRED FROM TWO IMPORTED DIRK VAN DEN BULCK OF ALWYN BESTER.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	hpm	R1,000	Current bid: R1,500
10th December 2025 20:40	LOT 16 FESTIVE AUCTION – ZA 22 GPU 8748 CHECK ——BRED BY BENEKE LOFTS—— 5TH HOTSPOT AVERAGES SAIPR- SIRE: 203022 FR 19 “GREG 22” Bloodlines from Kaasboer and P.Veenstra – SAMDPR 2019/2020 . Bred 3rd ACE Dinokeng 2022 . Bred 8th ACE CTIOL 2023. Bred 2nd Club Sale Bloemfontein. Bred 19th Final CTIOL 2023.—— DAM: 8066 ZA TRPF 18. FLOR ENGELS / TOM LOCK. She is is the nestmate sister to the grand father of SAPIR ONE LOFT WINNER 2022 Winning R750 000.00 . Bred 3rd ACE Dinokeng 2022 . Bred 8th ACE CTIOL 2023. Bred 2nd Club Sale Bloemfontein. Bred 19th Final CTIOL 2023. SEE PEDIGREE!!!	holid	R4,000	Winning Bid: R4,000
10th December 2025 20:40	LOT 16 FESTIVE AUCTION – ZA 22 GPU 8748 CHECK ——BRED BY BENEKE LOFTS—— 5TH HOTSPOT AVERAGES SAIPR- SIRE: 203022 FR 19 “GREG 22” Bloodlines from Kaasboer and P.Veenstra – SAMDPR 2019/2020 . Bred 3rd ACE Dinokeng 2022 . Bred 8th ACE CTIOL 2023. Bred 2nd Club Sale Bloemfontein. Bred 19th Final CTIOL 2023.—— DAM: 8066 ZA TRPF 18. FLOR ENGELS / TOM LOCK. She is is the nestmate sister to the grand father of SAPIR ONE LOFT WINNER 2022 Winning R750 000.00 . Bred 3rd ACE Dinokeng 2022 . Bred 8th ACE CTIOL 2023. Bred 2nd Club Sale Bloemfontein. Bred 19th Final CTIOL 2023. SEE PEDIGREE!!!	johanbekker	R3,500	Winning Bid: R4,000
10th December 2025 20:39	LOT 16 FESTIVE AUCTION – ZA 22 GPU 8748 CHECK ——BRED BY BENEKE LOFTS—— 5TH HOTSPOT AVERAGES SAIPR- SIRE: 203022 FR 19 “GREG 22” Bloodlines from Kaasboer and P.Veenstra – SAMDPR 2019/2020 . Bred 3rd ACE Dinokeng 2022 . Bred 8th ACE CTIOL 2023. Bred 2nd Club Sale Bloemfontein. Bred 19th Final CTIOL 2023.—— DAM: 8066 ZA TRPF 18. FLOR ENGELS / TOM LOCK. She is is the nestmate sister to the grand father of SAPIR ONE LOFT WINNER 2022 Winning R750 000.00 . Bred 3rd ACE Dinokeng 2022 . Bred 8th ACE CTIOL 2023. Bred 2nd Club Sale Bloemfontein. Bred 19th Final CTIOL 2023. SEE PEDIGREE!!!	holid	R3,000	Winning Bid: R4,000
10th December 2025 20:38	LOT 16 FESTIVE AUCTION – ZA 22 GPU 8748 CHECK ——BRED BY BENEKE LOFTS—— 5TH HOTSPOT AVERAGES SAIPR- SIRE: 203022 FR 19 “GREG 22” Bloodlines from Kaasboer and P.Veenstra – SAMDPR 2019/2020 . Bred 3rd ACE Dinokeng 2022 . Bred 8th ACE CTIOL 2023. Bred 2nd Club Sale Bloemfontein. Bred 19th Final CTIOL 2023.—— DAM: 8066 ZA TRPF 18. FLOR ENGELS / TOM LOCK. She is is the nestmate sister to the grand father of SAPIR ONE LOFT WINNER 2022 Winning R750 000.00 . Bred 3rd ACE Dinokeng 2022 . Bred 8th ACE CTIOL 2023. Bred 2nd Club Sale Bloemfontein. Bred 19th Final CTIOL 2023. SEE PEDIGREE!!!	johanbekker	R2,500	Winning Bid: R4,000
10th December 2025 20:35	LOT 16 FESTIVE AUCTION – ZA 22 GPU 8748 CHECK ——BRED BY BENEKE LOFTS—— 5TH HOTSPOT AVERAGES SAIPR- SIRE: 203022 FR 19 “GREG 22” Bloodlines from Kaasboer and P.Veenstra – SAMDPR 2019/2020 . Bred 3rd ACE Dinokeng 2022 . Bred 8th ACE CTIOL 2023. Bred 2nd Club Sale Bloemfontein. Bred 19th Final CTIOL 2023.—— DAM: 8066 ZA TRPF 18. FLOR ENGELS / TOM LOCK. She is is the nestmate sister to the grand father of SAPIR ONE LOFT WINNER 2022 Winning R750 000.00 . Bred 3rd ACE Dinokeng 2022 . Bred 8th ACE CTIOL 2023. Bred 2nd Club Sale Bloemfontein. Bred 19th Final CTIOL 2023. SEE PEDIGREE!!!	holid	R2,000	Winning Bid: R4,000
10th December 2025 20:29	LOT 12 FESTIVE AUCTION – ZA 23 KPU 698 -SIRE:”THE TWO OF TWO TWO” Cock Painter Putt/NG BB Direct son of MIRACLE BREEDER “BLUE WHIP”. This cock is a great racer and multiple winner. He could have been a 3 X Union Winner if only he was a better trapper!! His mother is the legendary “OUPASKE” who is a daughter of “KONING KAAS” when he was mated to “THE FAMOUS SK HEN” Between these three pigeons there is a progeny of more than 200 winners over the last 5 years.————DAM:”SAINT SWEET” Hen Painter NG/Putt BB Great racer and winner of 1st Club 2nd Union 2nd Combine on a very hot day from 580km. Super consistent racer always in the front pack scoring 4 X Top 1% Union places. Direct daughter of the great “NEW KING” who is the best son of the famous “DIAMOND PAIR Mother to 3 winners in only 2 years breeding in the race loft. Also mother to SAINT PETE who flew 92nd Final at AfrikaPro and SAIL who was 36th Blue Jacket Ace Pigeon.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	torrez	R3,000	Winning Bid: R3,000
10th December 2025 20:29	LOT 16 FESTIVE AUCTION – ZA 22 GPU 8748 CHECK ——BRED BY BENEKE LOFTS—— 5TH HOTSPOT AVERAGES SAIPR- SIRE: 203022 FR 19 “GREG 22” Bloodlines from Kaasboer and P.Veenstra – SAMDPR 2019/2020 . Bred 3rd ACE Dinokeng 2022 . Bred 8th ACE CTIOL 2023. Bred 2nd Club Sale Bloemfontein. Bred 19th Final CTIOL 2023.—— DAM: 8066 ZA TRPF 18. FLOR ENGELS / TOM LOCK. She is is the nestmate sister to the grand father of SAPIR ONE LOFT WINNER 2022 Winning R750 000.00 . Bred 3rd ACE Dinokeng 2022 . Bred 8th ACE CTIOL 2023. Bred 2nd Club Sale Bloemfontein. Bred 19th Final CTIOL 2023. SEE PEDIGREE!!!	johanbekker	R1,500	Winning Bid: R4,000
10th December 2025 20:29	LOT 12 FESTIVE AUCTION – ZA 23 KPU 698 -SIRE:”THE TWO OF TWO TWO” Cock Painter Putt/NG BB Direct son of MIRACLE BREEDER “BLUE WHIP”. This cock is a great racer and multiple winner. He could have been a 3 X Union Winner if only he was a better trapper!! His mother is the legendary “OUPASKE” who is a daughter of “KONING KAAS” when he was mated to “THE FAMOUS SK HEN” Between these three pigeons there is a progeny of more than 200 winners over the last 5 years.————DAM:”SAINT SWEET” Hen Painter NG/Putt BB Great racer and winner of 1st Club 2nd Union 2nd Combine on a very hot day from 580km. Super consistent racer always in the front pack scoring 4 X Top 1% Union places. Direct daughter of the great “NEW KING” who is the best son of the famous “DIAMOND PAIR Mother to 3 winners in only 2 years breeding in the race loft. Also mother to SAINT PETE who flew 92nd Final at AfrikaPro and SAIL who was 36th Blue Jacket Ace Pigeon.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	fuad	R2,500	Winning Bid: R3,000
10th December 2025 20:25	LOT 16 FESTIVE AUCTION – ZA 22 GPU 8748 CHECK ——BRED BY BENEKE LOFTS—— 5TH HOTSPOT AVERAGES SAIPR- SIRE: 203022 FR 19 “GREG 22” Bloodlines from Kaasboer and P.Veenstra – SAMDPR 2019/2020 . Bred 3rd ACE Dinokeng 2022 . Bred 8th ACE CTIOL 2023. Bred 2nd Club Sale Bloemfontein. Bred 19th Final CTIOL 2023.—— DAM: 8066 ZA TRPF 18. FLOR ENGELS / TOM LOCK. She is is the nestmate sister to the grand father of SAPIR ONE LOFT WINNER 2022 Winning R750 000.00 . Bred 3rd ACE Dinokeng 2022 . Bred 8th ACE CTIOL 2023. Bred 2nd Club Sale Bloemfontein. Bred 19th Final CTIOL 2023. SEE PEDIGREE!!!	lion	R1,000	Winning Bid: R4,000
10th December 2025 20:24	LOT 17 FESTIVE AUCTION –ZA KPU 24 1644 ——SAME BRED AS 4TH AFRIKAPRO RACE 8 2025 “NOBLE CHAMPION” AGAINST 1964 BIRD ON 1228 M/M – EQUAL WINNER——–Sire: 26858 ZA TRPF 10 “DERBY COCK”. (SIRE TO ZA 20 CYRL 5590 – WINNING R134 200.00 AT CENTRAL LOFTS 2021) 10 x Winner and bred multiple winners for BENEKE LOFTS.———DAM: 17395 ZA TRPF 17 CARELLI HEN. ACE BIRD OVERALL GAUTENG COMBINE 2019 ACE BIRD OVERALL O.E.R.F RAND 2019 ACE BIRD OVERALL MIDDLE DISTANCE S.R.P.C 2019 ACE BIRD OVERALL MIDDLE DISTANCE DIVISION 2 2019 ACE BIRD MIDDLE DISTANCE. SEE PEDIGREE!!	lion	R1,500	Winning Bid: R1,500
10th December 2025 20:08	.LOT 6 FESTIVE AUCTION –ZA 23 KM 230 -BRED BY GAVIN ROUS——SIRE:620 22 . BRED OUT OF THE BEST BLOOD OF DIE PAINTERS FROM THEIR 17 TIMES WINNER AND A SON OF KONING KAAS.———-DAM:4516 22. KITTLE. THIS HEN IS A GRANDSON TO ALWYN BESTER’S SUPER BREEDER KITTEL COCK.SEE PEDIGREE!!!	dalrmweb-co-za	R4,500	Winning Bid: R4,500
10th December 2025 20:08	.LOT 6 FESTIVE AUCTION –ZA 23 KM 230 -BRED BY GAVIN ROUS——SIRE:620 22 . BRED OUT OF THE BEST BLOOD OF DIE PAINTERS FROM THEIR 17 TIMES WINNER AND A SON OF KONING KAAS.———-DAM:4516 22. KITTLE. THIS HEN IS A GRANDSON TO ALWYN BESTER’S SUPER BREEDER KITTEL COCK.SEE PEDIGREE!!!	annetjie	R4,500	Winning Bid: R4,500
10th December 2025 20:07	.LOT 6 FESTIVE AUCTION –ZA 23 KM 230 -BRED BY GAVIN ROUS——SIRE:620 22 . BRED OUT OF THE BEST BLOOD OF DIE PAINTERS FROM THEIR 17 TIMES WINNER AND A SON OF KONING KAAS.———-DAM:4516 22. KITTLE. THIS HEN IS A GRANDSON TO ALWYN BESTER’S SUPER BREEDER KITTEL COCK.SEE PEDIGREE!!!	dalrmweb-co-za	R4,000	Winning Bid: R4,500
10th December 2025 20:06	LOT 11 FESTIVE AUCTION –QATAR-25-2187 –BRED BY UMM BIRKA LOFTS–SAME BRED AS SIRE TO SAIPR WINNER 2025 WINNING R500 000.00——–UMM BIRKA IS ONE OF THE MOST CONSISTENT RACERS AT AFRIKAPRO 3 X TOP 5 BLACK JACKET THE LAST 3 YEARS—–Full sibling to : 9th Race8 480Km 1964p. AfrikaPro Premier One Loft Series 2025————–SIRE:ZA J&B-22-430 C JOELEX Du Preez & Deetlefs Chec 32. Race12 480Km 1034p. 43. Race8 300Km 1367p. AfrikaPro Premier One Loft Series 2023. DAM WERE DINOKENG FINAL RACE WINNER.———–DAM:QTR 22-820 H AFRIKA 820 Umm Birka Loft Chec 9. Race7 240Km 1424p. 30. Race9 330Km 986p. 94. Race5 330Km 2437p. 69. Race6 201Km 1454p. AfrikaPro Premier One Loft Series 2023. SIRE WERE 1e 280KM 633P AfrikaPro Premier One Loft Series 2022.DAM WERE 15. final winner & 5. ace over 10 official races in the Afrika Pro Series 2022.	olive-lofts	R5,000	Winning Bid: R5,000

.LOT 7 WACKY WEDNESDAY KAROO MILLION -ZA 23 BORD 2927 – AMOS BROWN -SIRE:SCROYENS.—–DAM: CLAUSING – KING DAVID. SEE PEDIGREE!!!!

Description

Auction History

Related products

…IMPORTANT NOTICE—PLEASE NOTE: ALL PIGEONS ON AUCTION TO BE COLLECTED FROM KAROO MILLION. PLEASE MAKE USE OF CT COURIERS. CONTACT PERSON : MARLETTE:0817965557

LOT 14 WACKY WEDNESDAY KAROO MILLION -ZA 23 KM 263 – LABUSCH LOFTS -SIRE:ZA 15 NKR 617 . —-DAM:ZA 19 NKR 4022.SEE PEDIGREE!!!

LOT 10 WACKY WEDNESDAY KAROO MILLION -ZA 23 KHS 368 – UITZICHT HOKKE -SIRE:LIM 0387 16 . CPL BLOEMFONTEIN 9409/21 KHS (DAUGHTER) 4TH MATJIESFONTEIN 2022 (SOLD FOR R12 000.00). ALFONS KLAAS BLOODLINES.———–DAM:10600 18 NK . SAVILLE PENKIN BLOODLINES.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!

LOT 13 WACKY WEDNESDAY KAROO MILLION -ZA 23 KM 464 – ANDRE VAN HEERDEN -SIRE:1090 NPN 2022 . PENNINGTON LOFT. HOOYMANS. ——-DAM:3370 HHC 22 . DAVE GILBERT.SEE PEDIGREE!!!

.LOT 4 WACKY WEDNESDAY KAROO MILLION -ZA 23 NKR 229 – LABUSCH LOFTS ——–SIRE:ZA 20 NKR 738 . —-DAM:ZA 19 162584 .SEE PEDIGREE!!!!!

.LOT 9 WACKY WEDNESDAY KAROO MILLION -ZA 23 NKR 211 – LABUSCH LOFTS -SIRE:ZA 15 NKR 0921 . DAM:ZA 19 162432 . SEE PEDIGREE!!!!

.LOT 2 WACKY WEDNESDAY KAROO MILLION -ZA 23 PTAO 128 – B SAMUELS & MOONLIGHTERS – SIRE: ZA 21 CAS 109 , GAVIN ROUS. BRED OUT OF ROODHOOFT BLOODLINES.——-DAM:ZA 21 0248 BENZ. LOCK/SABLON. SEE PEDIGREE!!!!

LOT 12 WACKY WEDNESDAY KAROO MILLION -ZA 23 CDP 253 – LIZELLE EN KINDERS —3RD HOTSPOT 3—SIRE:ZA 18 156604 . Alias “New Rudy” Strain: Gaby Vandenabele Color: Blue Check.———DAM: ZA 20 CDP 222/223 . Strain: Herman Color: Skalie Bred for stock, brother & sister mating..SEE PEDIGREE!!!

LOT 21 WACKY WEDNESDAY – ZA 13 GPU 13008 – SIRE : DV 485 08 04236. EIJERKAMP / VAN DYCK.—– DAM: 145 DV 07 08071. KOOPMAN / VAN DYCK RAMBO. SEE PEDIGREE!!

LOT 17 WACKY WEDNESDAY KAROO MILLION -ZA 23 BORD 2934 – AMOS BROWN —–9TH BARCELONA—SIRE: SIERENS/LOCK.——–DAM:SCHROYENS/BAD BOY DEN AS LINE.SEE PEDIGREE!!!

LOT 18 WACKY WEDNESDAY – ZA 16 TRPF 15315 CH – SIRE BRED FROM A BROTHER HARRY X LIMOGES GABY. AND DAM FROM SON OF HARRY MATED TO HALFSISTER HARRY. THIS HEN BRED WINNERS.SEE PEDIGREE!!!

.LOT 1 WACKY WEDNESDAY KAROO MILLION – ZA 23 NBD 8755 – DE WET & HUNTER – SIRE: ZA 19 HHC 3623 . BRED BY DAVE GILBERT.———–DAM:1423 NBHU . WON KLAPMUTS FINAL 2018.SEE PEDIGREE!!!

.LOT 8 WACKY WEDNESDAY KAROO MILLION -ZA 23 KM 235 – MC DANIEL -SIRE: ZA 19 VPUD 4779. SIERENS SABLON. HIS SIRE IS A GRANDSON TO THE FAMOUS “R50 000 ANDRE COCK”.————DAM:ZA 20 OERF 7865 . DE RAUW SABLON. BAK 17 LINES. “IL RAGNO ” BLOOD LINES. SEE PEDIGREE!!!

.LOT 6 WACKY WEDNESDAY KAROO MILLION -ZA 23 CDP 214 – GERHARD SUPA QUICK -SIRE: ZA 21 VPU 769 . Alias “Luke Skywalker” Strain: G.Oswald X Color: Blue Check.——–DAM: ZA 15 NBHUD 5416. GABY VANDENABEELE / GRONDELAER. THIS IS A GRANDCHILD TO FAMOUS “KROMME”.SEE PEDIGREE!!!