.LOT 2 PIGEON PALACE – ZA 21 GRPF 1877 – 9TH ENDURO ACE VICTORIA FALLS OLR 2022————–SIRE: BE-18-3021021.FLORIAN UNIVERSE. N & F NORMAN.FATHER IS MAGIC FLORIAN BASE BREEDER 1DT PROV ACE BIRD LONG DISTANCE 2012.———–DAM:GB 19 C 46404 —DIRK VAN DEN BULCK/STEFAAN LAMBRECHT CROSS—THIS HEN BRED A UNION WINNER AND CLUB WINNER WHEN MATED TO “MR BODY” FOR DIE HUYSERS—DIE HUYSERS ALSO BRED A WINNER OUT OF THIS HEN FOR PIGEON PALACE (GYS LOUW).SEE PEDIGREE!!!

Name: .LOT 2 PIGEON PALACE - ZA 21 GRPF 1877 - 9TH ENDURO ACE VICTORIA FALLS OLR 2022--------------SIRE: BE-18-3021021.FLORIAN UNIVERSE. N &amp; F NORMAN.FATHER IS MAGIC FLORIAN BASE BREEDER 1DT PROV ACE BIRD LONG DISTANCE 2012.-----------DAM:GB 19 C 46404 —DIRK VAN DEN BULCK/STEFAAN LAMBRECHT CROSS—THIS HEN BRED A UNION WINNER AND CLUB WINNER WHEN MATED TO “MR BODY” FOR DIE HUYSERS—DIE HUYSERS ALSO BRED A WINNER OUT OF THIS HEN FOR PIGEON PALACE (GYS LOUW).SEE PEDIGREE!!!
SKU: 54364
Availability: InStock

Winning Bid: R2,500

Item condition: New

Category: ACTIVE AUCTION - PIGEON PALACE -FROM 26 FEBRUARY TO SUNDAY 2 MARCH 2025 (ENDING FROM 15:15)

Description
Auction history

Description

Auction History

Auction has finished

Highest bidder was: Heinrich

Date	Bid	User
2nd March 2025 15:09	R2,500	Heinrich
2nd March 2025 15:05	R2,000	DSD TRANSPORT
2nd March 2025 14:58	R1,500	Heinrich
27th February 2025 9:29	R1,000	DSD TRANSPORT
26th February 2025 14:24	Auction started

Latest bids

Date	Auction	Username	Bid	Status
27th September 2026 15:02	LOT 45 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Quatro Syndicate-OERF 25 10159 -2ND FINAL RACE ————SIRE – NL 23 9338915 A Stefaans Lambrechts cock who proved himself immediately as a top breeder in his very first year in the stock loft. Owned by Christoph Groene, Germany, he represents quality European breeding genetics and forms the sire side of OERF 25 10159, 2nd Final.——————-DAM – OERF 23 5459 An outstanding 2 × Winner from a strong family of proven racers and breeders. Her sire, ZA 22 41008, is a 4 × Winner and super racer, bred from TRPF 11 17125 “Skraale”, a super breeder, and LIM 15 1961, a Gaddin 5 × Hen × Hooymans × Oswald pigeon that was the only bird on the day in Gauteng from Beaufort West 820 km. Her dam, KUYS 20 213, is a 5 × Winner from Desmet/Janssen/Cattrysse bloodlines, bred from ZA SRF 19 1705 – 5 × Winner and ZA 12 PWF 0072 – Richmond 755 km Winner.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	erikvanzyl	R4,500	Current bid: R4,500
27th September 2026 15:02	LOT 30 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Spikkels Hokke-OERF 25 14492 -SIRE – 3142 ZA 24 OERF “SON OF UNION WINNER” Jansen / Van Rhijn Kloeck / Lock / Carelly. A proven breeding cock that bred the 4th Carnival Lofts Final 2026 for Spikkels Hokke and also bred 10045, a 3× Winner — 2× Club and 1× Division, achieved two weeks in a row — bred by Pienaar Lofts. His sire, 2263 ZA 15 OERF, was a GPU Union Winner in 2016 as a youngster, winning Cradock 1st Club, 1st Division and 1st Union, and was a 4× winner. The dam line, through 7196 ZA 23 GPU, combines Tom Lock / Carelly and the Golden Carelly Ace Line.—————–DAM – 5787 ZA 23 OERF A Blue Bar hen from the 917 Clausing / Heinselman / Lock combination, raced by Andre Botha. Her sire, 3835 ZA 22 GPU – “917 Clausing”, is a son of the Clausing family and is sire to 3651, 2nd Ace Pigeon 2024. He is also a brother to 1541, a breeder behind many winners, including an 11th-place Thailand Masters Final performer. The dam line through 3260 ZA 22 CYRL combines strong Clausing, Heinselman, Lock and Sablon breeding, including birds recorded as producers of multiple winners.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	lolo	R5,500	Current bid: R5,500
27th September 2026 15:00	LOT 32 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Frederick Henry-BLUF 25 3416 –	lucky	R3,000	Current bid: R3,000
27th September 2026 14:58	LOT 31 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Rain’s Pride-ZA 25 207805 -SIRE – ZA 2024 ABL 1470 Bred by Alwyn Bester – Red Cock A quality breeding cock and father to “MONSTER KITTEL”, who achieved 13th Ace Pigeon and 16th Final Carnival Winter 2026. He is bred from “DOUBLE BEST KITTEL” NL 2022 D 8234391, a Bulck/Dehon/Demonseau cock and double grandson of the legendary “BEST KITTEL”, winner of 1st National Ace KBDB Sprint 2017 and 4th National Ace KBDB Sprint 2016.————-DAM – ZA 2023 VPU 1743 “SUPER ACES IN ONE” Bred by Egbert O’Kelly – Blue Hen A proven breeding hen and mother to “MONSTER KITTEL”, winner of 13th Ace Pigeon and 16th Final Carnival Winter 2026. She is a daughter of “HULK” ZA 2014 GPU 11163, winner of 1st GPU Combine Winburg 280 km and father to, among others, 2nd Ace SAIPR Winter 2024 and 4th Hotspot Ace SAIPR 2022. Her dam is “ACES X ACES” ZA 2022 VPU 8451, an Egbert O’Kelly blue white-flight hen and half-sister to 2nd Ace Overall Dinokeng 2024. A strong Egbert O’Kelly performance family, combining proven Combine, SAIPR and Dinokeng Ace bloodlines.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	rain	R4,000	Winning Bid: R4,000
27th September 2026 14:58	LOT 32 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Frederick Henry-BLUF 25 3416 –	toppigeon	R2,500	Current bid: R3,000
27th September 2026 14:57	LOT 30 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Spikkels Hokke-OERF 25 14492 -SIRE – 3142 ZA 24 OERF “SON OF UNION WINNER” Jansen / Van Rhijn Kloeck / Lock / Carelly. A proven breeding cock that bred the 4th Carnival Lofts Final 2026 for Spikkels Hokke and also bred 10045, a 3× Winner — 2× Club and 1× Division, achieved two weeks in a row — bred by Pienaar Lofts. His sire, 2263 ZA 15 OERF, was a GPU Union Winner in 2016 as a youngster, winning Cradock 1st Club, 1st Division and 1st Union, and was a 4× winner. The dam line, through 7196 ZA 23 GPU, combines Tom Lock / Carelly and the Golden Carelly Ace Line.—————–DAM – 5787 ZA 23 OERF A Blue Bar hen from the 917 Clausing / Heinselman / Lock combination, raced by Andre Botha. Her sire, 3835 ZA 22 GPU – “917 Clausing”, is a son of the Clausing family and is sire to 3651, 2nd Ace Pigeon 2024. He is also a brother to 1541, a breeder behind many winners, including an 11th-place Thailand Masters Final performer. The dam line through 3260 ZA 22 CYRL combines strong Clausing, Heinselman, Lock and Sablon breeding, including birds recorded as producers of multiple winners.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	bbar	R5,000	Current bid: R5,500
27th September 2026 14:56	LOT 30 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Spikkels Hokke-OERF 25 14492 -SIRE – 3142 ZA 24 OERF “SON OF UNION WINNER” Jansen / Van Rhijn Kloeck / Lock / Carelly. A proven breeding cock that bred the 4th Carnival Lofts Final 2026 for Spikkels Hokke and also bred 10045, a 3× Winner — 2× Club and 1× Division, achieved two weeks in a row — bred by Pienaar Lofts. His sire, 2263 ZA 15 OERF, was a GPU Union Winner in 2016 as a youngster, winning Cradock 1st Club, 1st Division and 1st Union, and was a 4× winner. The dam line, through 7196 ZA 23 GPU, combines Tom Lock / Carelly and the Golden Carelly Ace Line.—————–DAM – 5787 ZA 23 OERF A Blue Bar hen from the 917 Clausing / Heinselman / Lock combination, raced by Andre Botha. Her sire, 3835 ZA 22 GPU – “917 Clausing”, is a son of the Clausing family and is sire to 3651, 2nd Ace Pigeon 2024. He is also a brother to 1541, a breeder behind many winners, including an 11th-place Thailand Masters Final performer. The dam line through 3260 ZA 22 CYRL combines strong Clausing, Heinselman, Lock and Sablon breeding, including birds recorded as producers of multiple winners.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	lolo	R4,500	Current bid: R5,500
27th September 2026 14:56	LOT 76 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – GVR-OERF 25 10748 -SIRE:ZA 17 GPU 10131 A quality Blue Bar Pencil hen carrying a powerful combination of Twilight, Marieke and Vandenabeele bloodlines. Her pedigree includes the renowned ZA 97 005, ZA 02 1132 “MARIEKE HEN”, BELG 10 3020345, and SAGRPA 00 7253, a 3 × Union Winner. Further back the pedigree features BELG 07 3129273 “KAPOEN”, adding proven Vandenabeele genetics. An excellent blend of established South African Twilight blood with top European performance lines.————-DAM:ZA 19 OERF 2113 – HENNIE MOLL.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	ross	R1,000	Current bid: R1,000
27th September 2026 14:54	LOT 30 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Spikkels Hokke-OERF 25 14492 -SIRE – 3142 ZA 24 OERF “SON OF UNION WINNER” Jansen / Van Rhijn Kloeck / Lock / Carelly. A proven breeding cock that bred the 4th Carnival Lofts Final 2026 for Spikkels Hokke and also bred 10045, a 3× Winner — 2× Club and 1× Division, achieved two weeks in a row — bred by Pienaar Lofts. His sire, 2263 ZA 15 OERF, was a GPU Union Winner in 2016 as a youngster, winning Cradock 1st Club, 1st Division and 1st Union, and was a 4× winner. The dam line, through 7196 ZA 23 GPU, combines Tom Lock / Carelly and the Golden Carelly Ace Line.—————–DAM – 5787 ZA 23 OERF A Blue Bar hen from the 917 Clausing / Heinselman / Lock combination, raced by Andre Botha. Her sire, 3835 ZA 22 GPU – “917 Clausing”, is a son of the Clausing family and is sire to 3651, 2nd Ace Pigeon 2024. He is also a brother to 1541, a breeder behind many winners, including an 11th-place Thailand Masters Final performer. The dam line through 3260 ZA 22 CYRL combines strong Clausing, Heinselman, Lock and Sablon breeding, including birds recorded as producers of multiple winners.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	bbar	R4,000	Current bid: R5,500
27th September 2026 14:53	LOT 41 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Quatro Syndicate-OERF 25 10239 -6TH RACE 3 EQUAL WINNER , 6TH RACE 4 EQUAL WINNER , 5TH RACE 6 EQUAL WINNER————SIRE:PL 027 23 750. GREG ROCKET.———–DAM:ZA-2024-DPL-410 Dieplaagte & Sterkfontein Lofts Bont • 9th Final Carnival Summer 2025. • 26th Ace Bird Carnival Summer 2025. • 171st Hotspot 3 Carnival Summer 2025. • 75th Hotspot 2 Carnival Summer 2025. • 48th Hotspot 1 Carnival Summer 2025.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	thysenjohan	R7,500	Current bid: R7,500
27th September 2026 14:53	LOT 30 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Spikkels Hokke-OERF 25 14492 -SIRE – 3142 ZA 24 OERF “SON OF UNION WINNER” Jansen / Van Rhijn Kloeck / Lock / Carelly. A proven breeding cock that bred the 4th Carnival Lofts Final 2026 for Spikkels Hokke and also bred 10045, a 3× Winner — 2× Club and 1× Division, achieved two weeks in a row — bred by Pienaar Lofts. His sire, 2263 ZA 15 OERF, was a GPU Union Winner in 2016 as a youngster, winning Cradock 1st Club, 1st Division and 1st Union, and was a 4× winner. The dam line, through 7196 ZA 23 GPU, combines Tom Lock / Carelly and the Golden Carelly Ace Line.—————–DAM – 5787 ZA 23 OERF A Blue Bar hen from the 917 Clausing / Heinselman / Lock combination, raced by Andre Botha. Her sire, 3835 ZA 22 GPU – “917 Clausing”, is a son of the Clausing family and is sire to 3651, 2nd Ace Pigeon 2024. He is also a brother to 1541, a breeder behind many winners, including an 11th-place Thailand Masters Final performer. The dam line through 3260 ZA 22 CYRL combines strong Clausing, Heinselman, Lock and Sablon breeding, including birds recorded as producers of multiple winners.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	lolo	R3,500	Current bid: R5,500
27th September 2026 14:53	LOT 43 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Andre & Juan-OERF 25 13811 -6TH ACE BIRD———SIRE:ZA 18 GPU 4055.Alias “”Cassanova”” Strain: Carcinoma/Kaasboer This is another special son from “Carcinoma”.Already sire to 6 different winners.Sire to Organization winner from Trompsburg 2022.Sire to Federation winner Bloem (2) 2024.Sire to 2nd Combine with 2024.Sire to the 24th Ace SAIPR 2024.Sire to 39th final Diaz 2025.Sire to 11th Karoo Million 850 km 2025.Sire to 8th Carnival 2026.Sire to 8 th race (5) and 16 th race (6) Carnival 2026 on 1100 mpm.———-DAM:ZA 22 VPU 9793.Alias “Mythic” Lofts without this bloodline are dissadvantaged.Double g/daughter to legends ”Golden Carelly” and ”08816”. Her first nest produced the Org Ace 2026.She is dam to 8th race(5) and 16th race (6) Carnival winter 2026.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	salescranescomplete-co-za	R3,000	Current bid: R3,000
27th September 2026 14:53	LOT 43 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Andre & Juan-OERF 25 13811 -6TH ACE BIRD———SIRE:ZA 18 GPU 4055.Alias “”Cassanova”” Strain: Carcinoma/Kaasboer This is another special son from “Carcinoma”.Already sire to 6 different winners.Sire to Organization winner from Trompsburg 2022.Sire to Federation winner Bloem (2) 2024.Sire to 2nd Combine with 2024.Sire to the 24th Ace SAIPR 2024.Sire to 39th final Diaz 2025.Sire to 11th Karoo Million 850 km 2025.Sire to 8th Carnival 2026.Sire to 8 th race (5) and 16 th race (6) Carnival 2026 on 1100 mpm.———-DAM:ZA 22 VPU 9793.Alias “Mythic” Lofts without this bloodline are dissadvantaged.Double g/daughter to legends ”Golden Carelly” and ”08816”. Her first nest produced the Org Ace 2026.She is dam to 8th race(5) and 16th race (6) Carnival winter 2026.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	jimmypigeon2	R3,000	Current bid: R3,000
27th September 2026 14:52	LOT 37 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Willie Munnik-ZA 25 226 -SIRE:NWPF 20 ZA 7103.Strain: TOM LOCK Color: BLUEBAR WINNER OF CANIVAL SUMMER RACE 2021 BY 43MIN. BRED OUT OF BEST TOM LOCK FAMILY.————–DAM:05986 19 DV 488.Strain: VAN LOON/JANSEN Color: BLUEBAR CAR WINNER SAMDPR 2020..SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	ggmu	R1,000	Current bid: R1,000
27th September 2026 14:51	LOT 30 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Spikkels Hokke-OERF 25 14492 -SIRE – 3142 ZA 24 OERF “SON OF UNION WINNER” Jansen / Van Rhijn Kloeck / Lock / Carelly. A proven breeding cock that bred the 4th Carnival Lofts Final 2026 for Spikkels Hokke and also bred 10045, a 3× Winner — 2× Club and 1× Division, achieved two weeks in a row — bred by Pienaar Lofts. His sire, 2263 ZA 15 OERF, was a GPU Union Winner in 2016 as a youngster, winning Cradock 1st Club, 1st Division and 1st Union, and was a 4× winner. The dam line, through 7196 ZA 23 GPU, combines Tom Lock / Carelly and the Golden Carelly Ace Line.—————–DAM – 5787 ZA 23 OERF A Blue Bar hen from the 917 Clausing / Heinselman / Lock combination, raced by Andre Botha. Her sire, 3835 ZA 22 GPU – “917 Clausing”, is a son of the Clausing family and is sire to 3651, 2nd Ace Pigeon 2024. He is also a brother to 1541, a breeder behind many winners, including an 11th-place Thailand Masters Final performer. The dam line through 3260 ZA 22 CYRL combines strong Clausing, Heinselman, Lock and Sablon breeding, including birds recorded as producers of multiple winners.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	bbar	R3,000	Current bid: R5,500
27th September 2026 14:47	LOT 31 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Rain’s Pride-ZA 25 207805 -SIRE – ZA 2024 ABL 1470 Bred by Alwyn Bester – Red Cock A quality breeding cock and father to “MONSTER KITTEL”, who achieved 13th Ace Pigeon and 16th Final Carnival Winter 2026. He is bred from “DOUBLE BEST KITTEL” NL 2022 D 8234391, a Bulck/Dehon/Demonseau cock and double grandson of the legendary “BEST KITTEL”, winner of 1st National Ace KBDB Sprint 2017 and 4th National Ace KBDB Sprint 2016.————-DAM – ZA 2023 VPU 1743 “SUPER ACES IN ONE” Bred by Egbert O’Kelly – Blue Hen A proven breeding hen and mother to “MONSTER KITTEL”, winner of 13th Ace Pigeon and 16th Final Carnival Winter 2026. She is a daughter of “HULK” ZA 2014 GPU 11163, winner of 1st GPU Combine Winburg 280 km and father to, among others, 2nd Ace SAIPR Winter 2024 and 4th Hotspot Ace SAIPR 2022. Her dam is “ACES X ACES” ZA 2022 VPU 8451, an Egbert O’Kelly blue white-flight hen and half-sister to 2nd Ace Overall Dinokeng 2024. A strong Egbert O’Kelly performance family, combining proven Combine, SAIPR and Dinokeng Ace bloodlines.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	josefh-strydomgmail-com	R3,500	Winning Bid: R4,000
27th September 2026 14:45	LOT 45 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Quatro Syndicate-OERF 25 10159 -2ND FINAL RACE ————SIRE – NL 23 9338915 A Stefaans Lambrechts cock who proved himself immediately as a top breeder in his very first year in the stock loft. Owned by Christoph Groene, Germany, he represents quality European breeding genetics and forms the sire side of OERF 25 10159, 2nd Final.——————-DAM – OERF 23 5459 An outstanding 2 × Winner from a strong family of proven racers and breeders. Her sire, ZA 22 41008, is a 4 × Winner and super racer, bred from TRPF 11 17125 “Skraale”, a super breeder, and LIM 15 1961, a Gaddin 5 × Hen × Hooymans × Oswald pigeon that was the only bird on the day in Gauteng from Beaufort West 820 km. Her dam, KUYS 20 213, is a 5 × Winner from Desmet/Janssen/Cattrysse bloodlines, bred from ZA SRF 19 1705 – 5 × Winner and ZA 12 PWF 0072 – Richmond 755 km Winner.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	mike	R4,000	Current bid: R4,500
27th September 2026 14:45	LOT 30 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Spikkels Hokke-OERF 25 14492 -SIRE – 3142 ZA 24 OERF “SON OF UNION WINNER” Jansen / Van Rhijn Kloeck / Lock / Carelly. A proven breeding cock that bred the 4th Carnival Lofts Final 2026 for Spikkels Hokke and also bred 10045, a 3× Winner — 2× Club and 1× Division, achieved two weeks in a row — bred by Pienaar Lofts. His sire, 2263 ZA 15 OERF, was a GPU Union Winner in 2016 as a youngster, winning Cradock 1st Club, 1st Division and 1st Union, and was a 4× winner. The dam line, through 7196 ZA 23 GPU, combines Tom Lock / Carelly and the Golden Carelly Ace Line.—————–DAM – 5787 ZA 23 OERF A Blue Bar hen from the 917 Clausing / Heinselman / Lock combination, raced by Andre Botha. Her sire, 3835 ZA 22 GPU – “917 Clausing”, is a son of the Clausing family and is sire to 3651, 2nd Ace Pigeon 2024. He is also a brother to 1541, a breeder behind many winners, including an 11th-place Thailand Masters Final performer. The dam line through 3260 ZA 22 CYRL combines strong Clausing, Heinselman, Lock and Sablon breeding, including birds recorded as producers of multiple winners.SEE PEDIGREE!!!!	lolo	R2,500	Current bid: R5,500
27th September 2026 14:44	LOT 25 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Andre & Juan-OERF 25 13805 -3RD FINAL———-SIRE:ZA 19 OERF 3436.Alias “Full Throttle” The best that we can offer from this fantastic family of pigeons.Only started breeding him as he was on loan to a fancier. He sired 9th Ace in the Combine 2023.Sire to 2nd equal drop on race (2) Carnival winter 2025 from 739 p.Sire to 3rd place final Carnival OLR from 630 km 2026.————-DAM:ZA 24 OERF 4484.This hen was bred from the most sought after Locks crossed with the best long distance performers of Ferdi Lubbe.She is dam to 3rd final from 630 km at Carnival OLR winter series 2026.SEE PEDIGREE!!!	rain	R8,000	Winning Bid: R8,000
27th September 2026 14:44	LOT 25 CARNIVAL WINTER OLR – Andre & Juan-OERF 25 13805 -3RD FINAL———-SIRE:ZA 19 OERF 3436.Alias “Full Throttle” The best that we can offer from this fantastic family of pigeons.Only started breeding him as he was on loan to a fancier. He sired 9th Ace in the Combine 2023.Sire to 2nd equal drop on race (2) Carnival winter 2025 from 739 p.Sire to 3rd place final Carnival OLR from 630 km 2026.————-DAM:ZA 24 OERF 4484.This hen was bred from the most sought after Locks crossed with the best long distance performers of Ferdi Lubbe.She is dam to 3rd final from 630 km at Carnival OLR winter series 2026.SEE PEDIGREE!!!	caradoc	R7,500	Winning Bid: R8,000

Description

Auction History

Related products

.LOT 8 PIGEON PALACE – BE 17 6057648 – “NANCE V OECKEL”. DAUGHTER TOP RACER & BREEDER “RAKETMAN”. TOP BREEDING HEN SELECTED BY JO HERBOTS FOR US IN BELGIUM. DAM TO 4TH BOURGES 793 PIGEONS , 38TH NAT AGAINST 28551 PIGEONS. BEST BELGIUM LINES IN THIS SUPER HEN. SEE PEDIGREE!!!

LOT 15 PIGEON PALACE -ZA 18 82386 – Very consistant racer and top breeder. Daughter to one of the best birds we ever owned ‘10002’ great racer and even better breeding hen. Excellent linebred hen that with silky soft feathering and handles like a showpiece !SEE PEDIGREE!!!

LOT 14 PIGEON PALACE -BE 21 4217681 – SIRE:BE 18 4236718 . ORIGINAL MARC DE COCK. DAM IS A DIRECT GRAND DAUGHTER TO BAK 17.———DAM:BE 17 4094189 . ORIGINAL MARC DE COCK. FATHER WON OLYMPIAD 2017.SEE PEDIGREE!!!